5.4 PTR: If you QQ enough you will get what you want? (Build 17169, Part 5)

Lots of things were released in the recent build and they included things on holy paladins!  Here’s a summary of them from MMO champion.

Not Yet Implemented (NYI) Glyphs

  • Glyph of Divine Shield – Removing harmful effects with Divine Shield heals you for 0% for each effect removed.
  • Glyph of Devotion Aura – Devotion Aura no longer affects party or raid members, but the cooldown is reduced by 0 sec.
  • Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice – Hand of Sacrifice now reduces damage taken by the target by 20%, but no longer redirects damage to the Paladin.
  • Glyph of the Exorcist- Exorcism will now appear to remove the evil from its target.

I’m not sure what they’re doing to the Glyph system because some of these actually seem useful.  Not sure what the Devotion Aura glyph means…but it seems to be an idea of changing the spell which needed to be changed a long time ago which is a step in the right direction.  The spell needs more than just a glyph change though.  Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice seems like a very nice damage reduction cooldown which paladins don’t have at the moment.  Hand of Purity doesn’t count!

Changes to T16 2pc and 4pc Set Bonuses

  • Paladin T16 Holy 2P Bonus Infusion of Light also increases the healing done by Holy Light, Divine Light, and Holy Radiance by 10%. 25%.
  • Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 45 60 sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 1,500. 4,500.

Lets talk about the 2 set first. 25% is a fairly nice boost.  Just remember that it comes around every few seconds due to the infusion of light requirement.  It’s hard to see what kind of effect this will have without raid testing but lets try to take a stab at it using this heroic primordius log since throwing out numbers apparently makes you credible now. Some main points about this log:

  • On this 6 minute fight I got 23 Infusion of Lights.
  • My total healing was 35,786,185 with an overhealing percentage of 43%.


The table above lists all of the healing for this fight.  The buffs from the 2 set are calculated by buffing 23 out of the 37 casts of holy radiance by 25%.  This is simply done by multiplying the ‘Total Healing Done’ column for holy radiance by the following:

THD (2pc) = (THD * 23/37 * 1.25) + (THD * 13/37)

The first part above being the buffed portion.  The final value from above is listed as ‘Total Healing Done (2pc)’.  The values were then multiplied by 0.4 for the mastery from illuminated healing in ‘IH (2pc, Predictive)’.  The effective healing was then calculated by applying the same overhealing percentage as in the original log (second column after spell).  Summing the last two columns up and dividing by the original healing value, this computes to about a 1.4% increase in healing.  Granted our overhealing for this might go up or down depending on what you use and what kind of raid you will be in.  Realistically you might not be able to use all IoL procs on holy radiance so the eventual healing might be lower.  While I don’t think this is like a T14 4pc or remotely close I do think people are overlooking how much this will increase HPS.  At least it was better than the previous 2pc idea.

The 4pc was bound to be buffed.  The cooldown for this spell now lines nicely up with Holy Avenger.  DF every 2 minutes on top of a boost of around 10% in mastery is going to be nice.  Despite the fact that the eternal flames you cast will not get the mastery boost any longer.  You essentially gain 4500 mastery 1/6 of the fight.  At this point I’m just happy that the 4 set is actually helping us heal.

General Spell Changes

  • Seal of Insight no longer restores mana.

Also if you aren’t aware, there is a thread on the official Blizzard PTR forums discussing holy paladin changes.  Please go there if you have any thing useful to say about what you don’t like, what you think should be changed, ideas on how it should be changed.  Please don’t go there if you want to complain about Blizzard not paying attention to Holy Paladins or more useless ranting.  I think by this point they already know a lot of people hate them for PTR changes and whether it’s warranted or not, telling them more about this is not helping improve the situation.

Regardless, in that post above, there was quite a post regarding what Blizzard was thinking in terms of holy paladins around 3 weeks ago that was also shown on MMO.  Yesterday they added a little more information.  Regarding the Seal of Insight change which I raged about yesterday, their claim is that it has little impact on real play since it’s a situational ability.  Some fights where you don’t use it you will do just fine, and a lot of fights you simply can’t stand in melee range.  The plan to compensate for this lose is to buff the mana return of divine plea by up to 15%.  Divine plea currently returns 36,000 mana each use.  A buff of 15% to the spell (not a change to return 15% rather than 12% of total mana) is around +5,000 mana each use.  If this was supposed to make up for the mana return of Seal of Insight, then I say this is poor change.  Even on fights where I’m not supposed to stand in melee, just by randomly getting a few hits, I can get more mana than the 15,000 or 20,000 mana back I would get in a 6 or 8 minute fight.

I realized why this change made me so angry though. Even if they took the mechanic away, I don’t think it would make a big difference or be the reason between progression and no progression.  But what made me angry was that this was an ability some paladins used more often over others.  I think it provided an alley for a group of players who really wanted to utilize it to improve their healing and now that way is blocked.  Removing more imagination or character to game play especially at this point just further decreases the joy of playing the class.  It’s not these kinds of changes that are going to make players want to play the class IMO.

And alas finally a statement on what they’re planning to do with holy paladins.  As Viserys would say, “This is all I wanted.”

In regards to the more general concerns about Holy throughput, we do still plan to buff Holy elsewhere to make up for the changes to Eternal Flame. We’re still discussing exactly what those changes will be (which is why you haven’t seen them yet), but to give a bit of insight, we’re not very likely to buff spells like Beacon of Light or Holy Radiance. When we do make changes, they’ll probably be to spells like Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

Why though would they not consider a buff to Beacon of Light?  In its current state 50% of the time, all it does is provide overhealing.  A great buff to the paladin class overall would be to buff a mechanic that defines the class.  Here are some ideas on buffing this spell:

  • Make it splash some healing to an AOE around the player it’s on
  • Put the overhealing on the Beacon in to something useful
  • Make it an HoT heal based on how much healing they’ve received
  • Add an AOE health regen aura to players around the beacon player
  • Make the healing with the Beacon something you can actively control the release of

After coming back to WoW with the Scroll of Resurrection, my paladin was actually the character I boosted to 80 (don’t judge me).  Beacon of Light sounded to me like something that would provide light around it away from actual healing.  It’s name just suggested something like an AOE healing mechanic.  Lets make it happen!

Why not consider a buff to Holy Radiance? Well this kind of makes sense in the context of how it’s used now.  In other words since people are using this spell above a single target healing spell due to its effectiveness in healing and giving holy power to heal single targets, then they’re not going to buff this spell. Any buff to this spell would just make people use it more.  Increasing the radius on this (while nice) would make it an overpowered Prayer of Healing (priests) and other reasons etc.  I don’t see a buff to this spell other than perhaps a miniscule range increase.

So the spells they’re considering buffing are Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn and Guardian of Ancient Kings which just proves to me that Blizzard isn’t sitting in a cave.  Light of Dawn and GotAK have long been called out in the holy paladin community for buffs.  Light of Dawn’s actual healing is far worse than its counterpart holy power dump eternal flame.  You can just increase the amount of healing that it does to fix this.  Taking IH off EF did a great part in making people consider using LoD more.

GotAK while being a fairly powerful single target heal, in this tier raid of very few bosses who actually hit hard enough on the tanks to use it, ended up being not very useful.  Also since people are so concerned about HPS, the amount of healing output from this spell is low in relation to other spells. That being said, I’m not in the same boat with other people about improving this spell.  At least in 10 man, this spell has saved people’s lives on countless occasions (tanks especially preventing wipes).  It’s not just about the HPS that it puts out.  I can see the point in 25 mans though, where this kind of output is just going to be overhealed by other players spamming the tank.  Finally, for god’s sake the spell is on a 5 minute cooldown at least make it worthy of such.  You know what a worthy 5 minute cooldown is?  Fire Elemental Totem.  What if we changed this spell to a guardian that is actually a player controlled unit with its own spells.  Might be complicated but I’d love to play a more complicated class at the moment.

The idea of buffing Flash of Light to me is just bizarre.  I’m assuming that this is not just a base increase in healing…

Buffing Divine Light has long been needed.  Something like taking the requirement of HP generation to heal the beacon player off. The atmosphere everywhere today is that you need to cast divine light and it only heals single targets therefore there’s no use to using it.  That’s where the change needs to be made.  For these last two I just hope that Blizzard realizes buffing the healing coefficient will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing how much people use these.

Rather than buff these spells with simple throughput numbers that I think would just increase our overhealing style of play, here are some other ideas I have as compensation for nerfing IH on eternal flame. I honestly don’t think buffing anything listed above will compensate enough.

  • Give IH back, reduce the mastery coefficient on EF
  • Add back IH for eternal flames used in certain situations (during avenging wrath, during divine favor, etc.)

At the end of the day, I think it’s wonderful that Blizzard released some kind of information on what they’re thinking about for Holy Paladins.  Keeping people in the dark even if you’re just thinking about some ideas is silly.  By throwing these ideas out, sure a lot of people will still be like these won’t help anything and just stop talking, being completely unhelpful in figuring out what will actually help things.  But you will also get some great feedback in terms of how players think these spells could be buffed.


12 thoughts on “5.4 PTR: If you QQ enough you will get what you want? (Build 17169, Part 5)

  1. I really liked your thoughts on how to make BoL a more viable heal instead of wasted Overheals. Esp the idea of Splash Heals to those around the Beaconed target. That could make for some real decision making considerations to who gets the Beacon 🙂

  2. not american guy

    Talking about changes…
    What kind of buff you think that judgment need for Selfless Healer be viable? It’s better buff Judgement or Holy Shock active SH?

    Another question: I know it’s still early but which stats you think that would be better focus? Haste to spread better our shields from single heals and HR (because the lack of mastery on HoT), Crit to proc more IoL (if I remember well, Avenging Wrath will give 20% crit + 20% from Divine Favor + Holy Shock with 25% crit base, we will get 65% crit on HS when active our cds – if they stack ofcourse) or continue stacking mastery?

    • Selfless Healer is a hard talent to fix for holy paladins. The way the tier 3 talents were designed from what Blizzard has said was that EF is intended for raid AOE heavy situations while is Sacred Shield intended for more single target situations. That leaves a difficult niche for Selfless Healer to fit in to. To make SH viable for holy, it needs to outperform either one of these in each situation. The one way that SH would become viable to me is if they gave it some kind of AOE splash heal component that’s stronger than EF but requires a radius but weaker than Sacred Shield at single target healing. That being said I think adding Holy Shock to proc SH is a bit too powerful. Perhaps something like having it proc off cast-time spells is something I could see or off WoG but not EF. Still don’t think it would make this viable if the benefit is to give a free Flash of Light though.

      People are shooting down crit builds and haste builds left and right. I personally would like to try a crit build before shooting it down, not just for infusion of light procs but in general if for example Light of Dawn was to be buffed to be more powerful than eternal flame, then it might be interesting to try out a crit build to see how much more healing it gives. But to make crit more viable, Blizz needs to consider either 1 nerfing mastery more (which we’ll see I’m sure, we already have like 40-50%, next patch it’ll go to 50%+ or making more things have the chance to proc infusion of lights which I personally don’t think is a bad idea. It would solve the problem of slow cast times and also increase the benefit for having crit. Otherwise, mastery will remain our strongest stat for it’s reliability because when it comes to saving people’s lives you never want to gamble on anything.

      Just thought of another thing. I know other classes have certain talents or skills that make their cast times faster such as the Druid rejuv glyph that gave one of their spells a faster cast time. Why not introduce that to deal with slow cast times?

      • not american guy

        maybe a crit/haste build with that trinket that lower cds should work.. don’t know..

        btw news :p

        “Going to try DP scaling with Spirit. GoAK with AE heals. Maybe buff to WoG, EF, LoD.”
        For some clarification on this, here’s the patch notes for Divine Plea and Holy’s Guardian of Ancient Kings in the next PTR build:

        Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Holy version) has been redesigned. The ability is no longer limited to the next 5 single-target heals, and deals additional healing based on all healing spells cast by the Paladin for its duration. The ability also increases the Paladin’s haste by 10% while it’s active. However, the duration of the ability has been reduced to 15 seconds (down from 30 seconds).

        Divine Plea no longer reduces the amount of healing done by 50%, and now restores 135% of the Paladin’s Spirit as mana every 3 seconds for 9 seconds. The total amount of mana restored will always be at least 12% of the Paladin’s total mana.

        finally dp will work with spirit, and guardian turning into a better cd..

      • Thanks for posting these notes! I love these changes as well and despite the fact the buff won’t make up for fights where you can stand in melee they will buff mana return for fights where you can’t (no idea how the new fights work but depend on those this might be a better compensation). Guardian seems powerful and lined up with something like Holy Avenger could indeed turn out to be very powerful. Without this, in a 15 second period you have enough time to get off HS-HR-HR-EF-HS-HR-HR from normal healing “rotation” would still make it decent. I have a feeling the 10% will be rather low though…probably needs to be buffed or CD released. Also I’ve always wondered what the range on the guardian was but never found out, any ideas?

        This all being said, a few more mana regen spells or better CDs isn’t going to replace Illuminated Healing nerf. Other classes have more powerful cooldowns and better mana regen. Something big needs to happen to one of the other spells they mentioned needed to be buffed or something new all together to have a reason to take us to raids.

      • not american guy

        guardian have 10y range

        again about crit:
        did you see the new NYI paladin glyph (they updated that post and I just saw now)

        Glyph of Pillar of Light (NYI) Critical heals on other players display a small pillar of light at their location briefly

        what pillar of light means? maybe a look like monk’s healing shpere?

      • Seems like a minor glyph but not sure…

  3. Hey i realy like ur blog! Good comments on new patches or changes

  4. I like the changes … i don’t expect blizz to give us a tranq or hymn. But some buff to LoD would be really nice!

  5. not american guy

    new changes:

    sanctity of battle: haste lower the cd of HS
    selfless heaer: judgment generate holy power
    holy insight: 10% buff on WoG, EF and LoD

    well…I still miss IH shield, but its getting better…

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